Recruiting from 3rd World Countries

After reading the article I must say I agree with the last paragraph, in that we should be promoting and educating on a local front. If we continue to recruit from overseas how will these countries ever support themselves with nurses. I understand that the world is getting smaller and we need to lookout for other more disadvantaged countries but we should first be trying to encourage more people to train as nurses here.I believe the government should be making more places available to Australians rather than overseas students but I guess this is where money comes into it. I also believe that the Nursing agencies make substantial profits from overseas nurses. Sorry to be politcal but sometime this is what it is all about.

During my first yr placement last year in a one doctor country town I was placed for 3 weeks in a venue that had recruited two young, female indian nurses. These two nurses arrived having both worked in crtical care for two years in India. They undertook the 3 month "re - entry" course at a melbourne university paid for by the federal government I think?? From here they were placed in the venue I met them at and employed as GNP's. This is despite both these girlls expressing their desire to work only in the city prior to being recruited to Australia.They were then given further training to upskill them to the required standard for rural practise at the venues expense. Come the end of the year both girls left citing social isolation as the main issue. One returned home to an arranged marriage (arranged prior to her arrival in Australia) and the other I believe is now working in Melboourne.This raises several issues:1) How does the Government ensure appropriate return of service for funding these nurses "upskilling"? If we default on something along these lines we pay it back.....O/S nurses board a plane and go home...2) Why does the screening process focus on clinical skills rather than including vetting that takes into account lifestyle/ family issues.Yes we may be short of nurses but if continue to upskill O/S nurses for short periods of time we will be broke as well!!

Good post...Lots of interesting points. I'm doing my RN degree with a few international students. These fall into 2 camps - ones who are using being a student to stay on in Australia having outstayed their visitors visa (nursing is one of the cheaper degrees - they don't turn up much they're working anyway) , the second group are from '3rd world' countries - Africa & India on student visas.

The second group - I couldn't understand why they weren't studying in their native country until they told me they needed a degree taught in English as a degree in a language other than English didn't count for as many points when they applied to immigrate. Studying as an RN, annual cost for a citizen @ $5000, international student cost $16000 per year.

Most of those I've spoken are thinking of returning home briefly and then apply to immigrate to Australia, UK or USA. They obviously have enough money to prefer to be educated abroad rather than in their own country and remain there working. They have no qualms about doing it, their family are funding their stay here as they see it as an opportunity to get out of their country down the line.

Pretty cynical? I suppose you could look at it that way, but it's their choice, they're trying to make the best of their situation and opportunities.The reality is - we are living in the global village and a demand driven economy. If the immigration and nurses board in any country allows a foreign nurse entry (I assume based on some shortage indicated by analysis of the future job market) they will have to meet the qualifying criteria just like indigenous nurses, Australia obviously doesn't have enough human resources to fill it's need.

Shouldn't a foreign nurse have just as much right to the vacancy as anyone else? Why isn't their native country able to keep them? Because the pay is poorer, the ratios are worse and they're educated and they don't want to live there or do that type of job there - they want more money and more opportunity - so the unfortunate outcome being they reduce their own workforce and those less able have to make do with less, that's life in the 21st century - driven by market forces, looking after number 1 and try and build yourself a better future through education, tough luck on the un-educated.

So their government should make their conditions better to keep them - how can we realistically do anything about that ? - why complain about our government bleeding the 3rd world? It's all a business - get the resources from wherever you can, if you can't get them locally get them abroad. Who cares about the consequences as long as you meet your targets, it's solved the problem. I'm not saying I agree with it, but that's (short sighted) typical management philosophy I've seen many times in the UK and here in Australia. The managers don't control the politicians and it's the politicos who ultimately affect nursing student places - how hard can it be to fund 5000 extra places compared to the 'damage' done due to the 3rd world haemorrhage.

I got into nursing after 4 very lean years post Y2K where all my skills were being under cut by companies offloading their systems work to india, I couldn't compete with their prices, their product was just as good as mine but a fifth of the cost, my loyalty and decade plus effort to ensure I was current with the latest skills counted for nothing. Now with nursing I will have a new set of skills and know they are in demand throughout the english speaking world - I certainly am going to take advantage of that!

(Edit: Line Breaks)

I've just finished training with some of these nurses from overseas who had been practising for as long as ten years in their own countries (mainly china) and then had to pay thousands more than us for a degree here in Adelaide. Plus the study was harder, in their second language. Exams etc can't be easy! A couple are going back some are staying, some may stay a while and then go back. Considering they paid so much more than us, upfront too, I am amazed at their tenacity. (ok, and I loved their food!)

If we can help teach people from developing countries, and these skills are retuned eventually back home, are we perhaps just doing our moral bit for humankind anyway? And nurses generally are well known for moving around the world... By making the world a nicer place, perhaps we all benefit in a way economics and governments can't really measure.

But we should be careful not to create problems in our own backyard too...

m

HI

This is my first post here..I am an RN with 12 years experience..at the hospital (private) where I work here in Brisbane..a number of nurses from China, Taiwan, and Hong Kong have been employed. I'm afraid I have to be blunt here....more often than not they have poor english, skills wise they are just not up to scratch with Australian trained nurses..often having to be treated like graduate nurses...but to give credit they work very hard and are willing to learn... and in actual fact I like working with them...but....a little voice inside me wonders if they are exploited..brought here to Australia on a whim to make up numbers????? In some way that I cant explain I feel sorry for them.

David R.N

Hi

Addit to my previous post...China, Hong Kong (now of course part of mainland China) and Taiwan are not to be considered third world..I was in fact referring to overseas recruiting of nurses...I dont mind overseas nurses...but please at least speak English...example, complex instruction (not difficult) given to Chinese nurse...met with empty vacant look!!!!.....also two Universites here in Brisbane have at least 300 graduates a year in nursing..I guess Im trying to make a point here...recruit sensibly..dont just bring nurses here to make up numbers, its interesting that nurses leave the proffesion seemingly in droves..hence one of the factors contributing to shortage..in my ward alone two foreign nurses brought here (sponsored) to Australia as nurses to practice as nurses are already considering leaving the profession to study in other areas.

David R.N

Given that several australian universities are rejecting more than a few "eligible" applicants to undergraduate nursing courses each year it would seem that rather than a shortage of school leavers willing to enter the profession there may be infact be a shortage of avenues with which these people can enter into the profession of nursing.

One other issue is that most of these so called 'skilled migrants' are coming from very high population areas, having worked in what by their countries standards would be a major referral centre and then being compelled to work in a rural setting in Australia with minimal training and back up being miles away.

Finally I don't mean to sound racist but an Australian school leaver entering into a nursing degree has no direct benefit through completing the degree other than becoming a nurse (ie; it won't buy them entry out of a 2nd/3rd world country). This is not necessarily the case for an individual entering from these third world countries who after a few short years are eligble for the likes of centrelink benefits and to change to any profession they so desire including ones with better pay and/ or hours.

Given that we have school leavers in need of work who are also willing to enter this profession of ours shouldn't charity (allocation of uni places) begin at home.

Morgan

Hi All, I agree wholeheartedly with David-RN, we need nurses with good English skills. Not is it hard to work wtih someone who has limited grasp of the English language, the patients hate it. They complain bitterly behind said nurses' back. Yes they are willing and do work hard, but hey...... Also Nursemorgan - agree with you charity begins at home. We need tons more uni places so we can train all the young guys/gals who are clearly trying to get into uni but can't get places. (don't call me a racist, just stating the facts as I see them out in the wards).

Very interesting about the lack in english skills. Since all foreign nurses, from non-english speaking countries, have to score high in the Academic IELTS test I'm curious to know how on earth they get past that with insufficient language skills. If anyone knows please let me know since I was 0.5 short in academic writing and therefore have to wait till next test in dec.

I'm studying the Bachelor of Nursing and have met many Zimbabwean students in the course. One was a chemist and another a biology teacher. These qualifications aren't recognised here so they are starting again to get good guarenteed jobs to support their families.

They left a horrible domestic political situation and though one could argue taking educated refugees (or nurses from the '3rd world') depletes the source country of talent, I don't believe anyone can morally require an individual to stay in a country and not seek better opportunities abroad. What would you do?